Fantastic interview! While I like Ben's content a lot, his attitude towards roleplaying and attempts to explain that roleplaying is not necessarily an aspect of RPGs, or that the game was never about that, and even suggesting it should be relabeled, just rubs me the wrong way.
Mostly because it's very clear to me, as someone who has been playing RPGs since the early 90s, interacted with multiple groups (including some that had been together since the 70s-80s), bought tons of magazines, took part in online forums during the early days and so on, that it's just him pushing an idea because he doesn't like that way of play himself. Heck, just yesterday I was watching a game design documentary and it showed some videos of people explaining RPGs back in the 1980s, and it went something like "In summary, war gaming mechanics meets Lord of the Rings storytelling". I mean, c'mon!
And because he's such an influential voice in the OSR community, I notice many people (especially those who, like him, have not been playing RPGs for that long) taking that as "the truth", when it's anything but. In general, at least in my experience back then, the players that were anti-roleplay were actually very few.
The same goes for the fetishization of challenge. Your question regarding stats such as INT and WIS was very poignant to show the flaw of this attitude vs how the game explains itself - especially in the old systems, where mental stats had little influence in anything outside of roleplay! Charisma was the default dump stat for anyone who didn't care about roleplaying and didn't play a Paladin in AD&D.
Where I do agree with him and see as mostly correct is the mortality of the characters and how they were not a factor on the overall story being told. The story was that of the world, and the characters defeats were just as much a part of it as their triumphs. Sure, because adventurers were not that strong, the odds of being defeated were that much higher. World Playing Game is a cool way to put it.
That all being said, even if my comment came off as antagonistic, the truth is I have a deep respect for him and his work, as I do for yours. He's up there amongst my favorite RPG YouTubers, in fact, but it doesn't mean I agree with his particular views on RPGs as a whole.
Really penetrating questions (as usual) Dave. And thoughtful replies from Ben. Feels like you two crystallized the OSR in ways that haven’t been articulated before.
Also-- Dave you always do a great job promoting your fellow YouTubers.
Great read, but this "Itch, on the other hand, just lets you email customers about whatever you want." is what I hate about buying on itch. I don't what my marketplace throwing spam mails at me.
Fantastic interview! While I like Ben's content a lot, his attitude towards roleplaying and attempts to explain that roleplaying is not necessarily an aspect of RPGs, or that the game was never about that, and even suggesting it should be relabeled, just rubs me the wrong way.
Mostly because it's very clear to me, as someone who has been playing RPGs since the early 90s, interacted with multiple groups (including some that had been together since the 70s-80s), bought tons of magazines, took part in online forums during the early days and so on, that it's just him pushing an idea because he doesn't like that way of play himself. Heck, just yesterday I was watching a game design documentary and it showed some videos of people explaining RPGs back in the 1980s, and it went something like "In summary, war gaming mechanics meets Lord of the Rings storytelling". I mean, c'mon!
And because he's such an influential voice in the OSR community, I notice many people (especially those who, like him, have not been playing RPGs for that long) taking that as "the truth", when it's anything but. In general, at least in my experience back then, the players that were anti-roleplay were actually very few.
The same goes for the fetishization of challenge. Your question regarding stats such as INT and WIS was very poignant to show the flaw of this attitude vs how the game explains itself - especially in the old systems, where mental stats had little influence in anything outside of roleplay! Charisma was the default dump stat for anyone who didn't care about roleplaying and didn't play a Paladin in AD&D.
Where I do agree with him and see as mostly correct is the mortality of the characters and how they were not a factor on the overall story being told. The story was that of the world, and the characters defeats were just as much a part of it as their triumphs. Sure, because adventurers were not that strong, the odds of being defeated were that much higher. World Playing Game is a cool way to put it.
That all being said, even if my comment came off as antagonistic, the truth is I have a deep respect for him and his work, as I do for yours. He's up there amongst my favorite RPG YouTubers, in fact, but it doesn't mean I agree with his particular views on RPGs as a whole.
Really penetrating questions (as usual) Dave. And thoughtful replies from Ben. Feels like you two crystallized the OSR in ways that haven’t been articulated before.
Also-- Dave you always do a great job promoting your fellow YouTubers.
A rising tide lifts all boats!
Great read, but this "Itch, on the other hand, just lets you email customers about whatever you want." is what I hate about buying on itch. I don't what my marketplace throwing spam mails at me.